The new chief executive of the Welsh Rugby Union, Abi Tierney, has identified revenue growth as a key priority and described how her Welsh rugby loving father burst into tears when she told him of her new role. In his first face to face media interview, Ms Tierney, who is currently director general for customer services at the Home Office, where she is responsible for 27,000 staff and oversees a £3bn revenue generating business from the issuing of millions of visas and passports each year, said she would be in listening mode to understand the challenges and opportunities facing the game before publicly articulating any agreed strategy for the game at all levels, where she recognises huge potential for the women’s game. The 49-year-old mother of two, who currently lives in Leicestershire but will be moving to Wales, stressed she wasn’t coming into the role with a predetermined agenda like whether Wales can sustain four professional regions or if a potential British Isles domestic league, despite the challenges of getting any agreement amongst numerous stakeholders, should be explored. Depending on how quickly a replacement is found for her at the Home Office she could be in post in October if say an internal candidate is appointed for the latest in January if from elsewhere. Prior to joining the civil service she cut her commercial teeth working as a business development director at Serco with key NHS facing operational roles, as well as being part of a team recruited by IBM that helped to pivot what was then a struggling hardware focused corporation into a thriving services provider. So what sort of boss will she make at the WRU, which while classed as a mid-sized firm with revenues of circa £100m comes under intense and constant scrutiny as the governing body of the national game which touches the lives of so many people? Speaking in a corporate hospitality box overlooking the halfway line at the Principality Stadium she said: “One of my leadership styles is about listening and engaging and I really don’t believe all the answers are in my head or in this building. A big part of my first priority will be to listen and to meet as many stakeholders as I possibly can across Welsh rugby, to understand what they see as the challenges and to actually build that vision together because I think it will only work if we get buy-in at all levels. “I think if I came in and imposed a vision then that would be a bad start to my job and it is not how I work. However, that doesn’t mean there aren’t key things that we have to do, and one is obviously growing revenue. We have got to do that, as that will allow us to then invest into the game, the regions and ensure that we secure and keep players... and which gets that virtuous circle. My commercial background will help do some of that. "I am really passionate about growing the women’s game and you don’t have to look too far from the front of the newspapers currently (England reaching the women’s World Cup Final) to see how women’s sport is just starting to capture the imagination of people. And there is a real opportunity to go at that in women’s rugby. “What is also really important is to continue to build on the work that has been done over the last six months around the culture and ensuring this is an organisation that people are proud of and want to work and feel included and engaged in. That is not just the people who are in the headquarters, but everybody who participates or plays. "The first question I was asked of me at the interview (a two hour affair at held at the Celtic Manor Resort in Newport) is what is the population of Wales and then how many people play rugby in Wales. And it is phenomenal that we have a population of 3.2 million and 72,000 (participants). When you compare that to England it just shows you how important rugby is to Wales, but also what a foundation to build on.” The current agreement between the regions and the union, via the Professional Rugby Board (PRB), is to maintain the status quo of four - despite them facing significant funding cuts to their respective player budgets. On the financial challenges facing the game, Ms Tierney said: “Firstly, this isn’t unique to Wales. I talk to colleagues in English rugby and elsewhere and this is a challenge that rugby is facing more generally. So, I think there are some really important conversations to be had about overall sustainability in rugby and not just for Wales. It is what you call an intractable problem from that perspective. Secondly, the PRB has made the decision to have four regions at the moment. "I have no clear view right now about whether that is right as they have a lot more information than I have access to currently, but it will be a really important priority when I come in to understand the revenues, the numbers, sustainability and the basis of that decision. I am keen to ensure it is sustainable going forward, but if not what we need to do differently.” She will have scope to bring in new staff where she believes deficiencies need addressing. The union has already identified its commercial team as an area in need of bolstering. Ms Tierney said: “Any job interview is a two way process and it was absolutely one of the questions I asked . When I was the preferred candidate I met the executive team and asked them where they felt either they were stretched or where they don’t necessarily have the skills. Commercial (revenue growth) is absolutely one of those areas where we would be looking to invest in terms of capability and skill set.” Many of the most lucrative commercial funding deals like broadcasting rights for the Six Nations and the United Rugby Championship (URC), for which the broadcasting rights for the next deal are currently out to market, are not in the exclusive hands of the WRU. They are negotiated via separate companies with the other unions. here is also the challenge of ensuing that the minority stakes of private equity firm CVC, in both the URC in which the four regions compete and Six Nations - deals for which the WRU is still drawing down payments for - doesn’t result in a zero sum gain with no improved commercial revenues offsetting CVC’s now active revenue share. The acid test on CVC’s input will be on the next Six Nations TV deal, currently a free to air split between terrestrial broadcasters ITV and the BBC that runs to the end of 2025. The union has struck a long-term sponsorship deal with kit provider Macron, while the current stadium naming rights deal with the Principality Building Society, which came into effect in 2016 and is understood to have been worth £10m, runs to 2026. The Cardiff headquartered mutual has the option to renew, but if they don’t will the union be able to secure a more lucrative deal? The new chief executive and any beefed up commercial team will still have plenty of other potential sponsor and advertising revenues to aim at. And as part of the WRU’s new six-year funding deal with the regions, all are committed to work more closely to improve commercial revenues. And there is certainly plenty of room for improvement. The Oakwell report, commissioned by the union under former chief executive Steve Phillips, shows that pre-pandemic in 2019 the regions only generated collectively £15m - on average £3.8m each - from their own commercial activities. Local regional turnover was defined as revenues generated from sponsorship, ticketing hospitality, merchandising and non match-day incomes. Only around only 30% of the regions’ total turnover was derived from such activities - compared to 50% on average for clubs in England and Scotland. To give context, in 2019 the average local revenue amongst the four regions was below the average of £11.7m for the English Premiership clubs, £21.7m for Top 14 French clubs, £8.8m for the four Irish provinces, with even clubs in the second tier league in France outperforming with a £5.7m average. Improving commercial revenues for the regions, regardless of their close geographical proximity and having to compete in some cases for the same revenue streams, has to be achieved. The union’s new chair, in former managing partner of professional advisory firm PwC in the UK, Richard Collier-Keywood, said last month that some the CVC monies yet to be assigned by the union could be ring-fenced for capital enhancing projects - a prudent strategy of Mr Phillips - with the aim of generating secure incomes to reinvest back into the game over the long-term. That will now be firmed up with the new CEO. : A British Isles league, despite the inherent challenges of getting all stakeholders, such as clubs, commercial partners, CVC as an equity investor and broadcasters, has been mooted as a way of providing a sounder financial footing for the game. Asked if it was a proposition at least worth exploring with other the other home unions and stakeholders Ms Tierney said: “I am not coming in with any absolute red lines, but we are not the only country struggling at the moment and we can absolutely learn from what others are thinking of doing, as well as trying to find ways of partnering on different things.” In January a BBC Wales investigation highlighted allegations of a toxic culture of sexism, racism, homophobia and misogyny within the union. That resulted in former chief executive Steve Phillips quitting his role and Nigel Walker taking over in an interim capacity. He has now taken on the role as the union’s director of rugby. Following the BBC investigation the union established an independent panel to review its culture and behaviours. Chaired by former Court of Appeal judge Dame Anne Rafferty, it is expected to submit its findings to the union before the start of next month’s Rugby World Cup. Asked if she expects to find a toxic culture in the WRU when she officially starts she said: !I watched the BBC programme even before I considered this role. I was incredibly shocked and sad by what I saw. I think mistakes have been made, but I think it is really important now to let the process run through in terms of the taskforce review. As an incoming CEO I am going to be so lucky to have that report on my desk from a team of people that have been looking at those questions in such an amount of detail, but I am not pre-empting (outcome).” However, she said that whatever the recommendations, they will be enacted in full. Her appointment has been signed off by the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments (Acoba) and the Prime Minister. This means she will be able to have a union presence prior to her official starting date. She said: "I will be able to join Richard (Collier-Keywood chair) and Nigel (Walker director of rugby) at a couple of the World Cup games as CEO in waiting. They couldn’t advertise my role until the announcement (WRU on her role). It is now being advertised and there are going to interview in October. If it is an internal candidate then I might be able to come sooner, but at the absolute outside it will be January.” With regards managing what can often be conflicting interests in Welsh rugby, and with all aspects of the game seeking more funding from the governing body, she said: “I am used to working in an environment where there are lots of competing priorities and demands. If you talk to people who I have worked with, they would say Abi’s ability to bring together diverse views and coalesce them around a shared vision is very strong. "That I think is one of the real strengths that I will bring, whether that is sponsors, potential sponsors, the regions, the community game or all of those, we have got to work together if we are going to get that pathway and development. And for the women’s game as well.” She said that she has always supported Wales in rugby, due to the influence of her rugby loving father Peter O’ Sullivan who hails for Barry. She was even christened at Barry Rugby Club. Ms Tierney said: “Dad went to St Illtyd’s Grammar School (Catholic school in Cardiff) and is one of six. His grandparents had come over from Ireland and worked in Barry Docks. They are all rugby fans and the rugby club was a big part of my growing up. We lived in the north east of England, but would come down to Barry Island for most of our holidays. And during what was then the Five Nations we tried to come to some of the home games.” On the reaction of her dad when he told him about being appointed CEO of the WRU she said: “It would have made a great TikTok video as he burst into tears when I told him. It was very emotional for him.” Her dad played both fly-half and scrum-half for Barry, Dinas Powys and Glamorgan Wanderers. Her mum hails from Middlesbrough. She said: “My dad used to record all the Wales games on old VHS. I used to sit down and watch them with him when aged five or six back in the heyday of the 1970s. I was about 12 when I watched a game in my own right. Wales lost and I went in tears to my dad who then had to admit that when he recorded them if we had lost he would dig out a really old game where they had won to show me.” Asked to assess Wales’ chances at the Rugby World Cup she said: !We have shown some fantastic promise in the last two games (warm up games against England) and hopefully we can build on those this Saturday (South Africa game). We do have a really tough group and Fiji will be a really interesting one.” Her remuneration at the Home Office has a salary band of between £160,000 to just under £165,000. Former chief executive Mr Phillips had a total remuneration of just under £360,000. On her new salary (WRU compared to Home Office role), she said: “I took a pay cut to go and do my job in the public sector and civil service pay is very strictly managed. I have always gone to jobs that I have loved. What my dad used to say to me was ‘do what you love and love what you do,’ and everything else will come out of that. This is genuinely my dream job and I still get goose bumps and I have to pinch myself that I have got it. I feel so privileged and genuinely lucky that people have shown faith in me to do it. “When I joined IBM it had the biggest corporate loss in history at the time. They were still selling hardware and had totally lost the fact that people like Dell were out stripping them. I went in to help transform them into a services company. “I then went into a local authority (Aberdeen City Council) which was struggling as the youngest director of local government at the time (aged 31). The business I run at the moment in the Home Office is a £3bn turnover one, with five million visas and 8.5 million passports a year issued, which people pay for. I have service legal agreements and productivity and efficiency targets to deliver, as well as revenue growth. I love finding things that will change the business model, grow revenue and improve the customer experience.” She said she will be looking to bring that focus on data and customer service to her new role at the union. She currently lives in Leicestershire. However, she confirmed she plans to make Wales her permanent residence. She added: “I have children, aged 10 and 15, who are in Leicestershire. I will keep a base there, but will be buying or renting a place here.” On her first meeting with Welsh coach Warren Gatland she said: “It was brilliant and he was really engaging. He was everything I thought he would be, which was challenging and asking me some really probing questions. I certainly felt that was a good interview process... and he was interviewing me as much as the other way around.”